"Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen" (distraxi)
12/11/2015 at 19:16 • Filed to: best4x4xfar
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"Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen" (distraxi)
12/11/2015 at 19:16 • Filed to: best4x4xfar | 0
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Has the capability of offroaders increased over the last
I mean, any randomly chosen road car will blow the socks off its 30, 40, or 50 year old ancestor in any way you care to name, except maybe appearance and fun factor :-(. But my impression is that offroad performance hasn’t moved ahead by leaps and bounds - at least, I don’t see people saying “You can get this year’s model places you could never have got the old one”.
Is a current Jeep, Landcruiser, Landrover or whatever, dramatically better offroad than an ancient one? Or has all the technology gone into making them safer and more comfortable and capable onroad, with the offroad compromises that implies being offset by electronic wizardry to just stay “good enough”.
Early Hilux ad for your time...
HammerheadFistpunch
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/11/2015 at 19:20 |
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Define better. More smooth, easier, more refined? YOU BET! More durable, more customizable, more flexibility and capacity? Hells no.
the main thing thats lacking is choice. Choice is WAAAAAAY down.
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Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
> HammerheadFistpunch
12/11/2015 at 19:29 |
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I was thinking in terms of straight-out ability to get from A to B over shitty terrain. Has the limit of crossable terrain got any higher over the years, or is what you can get through in an old truck still pretty much the same as what you can get through in a new one.
Smoother, easier, and more refined are a gimme - that goes hand in hand with the move from farm appliances to schoolrun assault vehicles. I’m surprised you’re saying durability’s gone down though -that’s one area where road cars have really come ahead.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/11/2015 at 19:35 |
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strait ability? I think it comes down to choice, there isn’t much choice these days in rugged vehicles...maybe 15 or so that are in various stages of capability. The only real advance in ability for off road vehicles has been traction control logic and while its made open system SO much better they are still inferior to locking system that use to be more common, or if not common available from the factory. Sure there are still factory locker options but more and more its reliance on traction control systems which have their problems as much as they have their advantages.
I think the peak of off road tech it terms of terrain crossing ability was between 1990-2000. Lots of body on frame stuff still around, but it was coil sprung with lots of travel and great engine meant for hard work, plus real off road options like lockers and the like. Case in point, my 97 cruiser would go toe to toe with the current cruiser and, in stock form, walk over it. There are a few exceptions like the power wagon, raptor and wrangler but the trend is down.
Like you said, the real advance has been bringing the rest of the vehicle up to par for road use and making off roading an easier and more comfortable persuit. That being said, the truth is that at a certain level of capability its just a measure of how much body damage you are willing to risk.
Eberle-Hills-Cop
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/11/2015 at 19:45 |
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Obligatory Nissan fanboy pro-4x package two cents here.
4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/11/2015 at 19:46 |
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I’m no pro on this subject. I’ve only driven a limited selection (2) of old vehicles off road, but I’ve driven a fair few modern(ish) vehicles off road and vehicle advancements have of course changed off road performance for the better.
Coil springs and adjustable shocks mean you can set your own ride height and allow greater suspension articulation over leaf springs, and they’re way more comfortable. Engine tech means more power, more torque, and less fuel burnt, bringing extended range and the ability to climb steeper and even tow something useful off road. Trans and transfer improvements, together with locking diffs and the occasional smart diff allow you to change your drivetrain setup so that the vehicle can adapt (whether manually or automagically) to the terrain it’s on, perhaps even switching into 2wd to save fuel. Better chassis construction, safety features, sound insulation, heating systems, air-conditioning, and seating mean you’re just that little bit less battered and bruised when you get to where you’re going.
And not to get all misty eyed and tearful, but I would say that the sweet spot for off roaders is gone, and while technology has built some truly good off roaders, the best ones were available about a decade or so ago, with only a small percentage still available now. If you can get a body on frame, bolt-on bolt-off, diff locking, electronics shunning, rugged and reliable 90’s vehicle, then there’s your perfect off roader. IMHO.
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4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30
> HammerheadFistpunch
12/11/2015 at 20:02 |
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That being said, the truth is that at a certain level of capability its just a measure of how much body damage you are willing to risk.
Oh this x100. The thought of taking a new Range Rover or Landcruiser off road with all their plastic chintz beggars belief. The only thing plastic on the outside of the Defender is the wheel arches, and I still worry about them. Aluminium bangs out straight, painted plastic just gets punished.
911e46z06
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/11/2015 at 20:20 |
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I don’t think so. Granted, I haven’t really had the pleasure of flogging a new Range around the desert, but in serious off-roading and expedition stuff, simplicity is key. So new stuff is hurt by how complicated and computery it all is. The older stuff is more popular because it’s simpler, and the aftermarket is so huge that you really just build anything up to the capability you need.
Also, generally speaking, the newer SUVs tend to be lower for better gas mileage.
godwinaustin
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/12/2015 at 09:57 |
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In general yes, as technology has increased. The problem remains with the market and the inavailability, or rather scarcity, of tough trucks in the marketplace, for whatever reason. For any serious off roading, differential locks at all points are essential, front, rear, and center. A vehicle with front and rear is almost nonexistent in the US today, though the rear option can still be optioned from a few manufacturers. Off roading is best with a utilitarian, simple (easy to repair on trail), with diff locks and ground clearance. That type of bird is becoming more and more rare. Overseas, I would say the story changes some, as it seems, in general, many of those markets demand more rugged vehicles.